You're confusing "ISK" with "value". Or possibly "ISK in my wallet" with "total ISK in the game". Or maybe even both.

When your ganked freighter dies, even if it is uninsured, a hundred or so million ISK suddenly appear in your wallet that didn't exist before. The fact that you personally have seen your total NAV go down by a few hundred million ISK, doesn't change the fact that there are now more ISK in the game economy than there were were before your freighter 'sploded.

That's what an ISK faucet is. Suicide ganking is a large wealth sink: the value of assets removed from the economy will invariably be worth more, perhaps much more than any ISK created, but it's still an ISK faucet.

As i have also played FW, i understand your point.

But i dont really see the difference between LP/ISK from FW and minerals/ISK from mining, and as one can buy some LP products from store without isk (too).

When i calculate(d) worth of my LP, i also calculated in any ISK i would need to spent at LP store.

And i (still) saw the (FW) LP were Good.



EDIT: oh yeah, i don-¦t think killmail-values have any actual effect on being ISK sink or anything like that.

If you can't think of all of the incredibly awful repercussions of your suggestion, you're even more blind than I thought you were. Hint, the game cannot tell the difference between "friendly" and "hostile" target locks, it's completely incapable of such a thing. Your idea would allow people to lock their own ships and make them immune to targeted damage.

Trying to tilt the windmills against numbers as a force multiplier, or put a different way, trying to nerf other people having more friends than you, will only lead to screwing up the game. Attempting to do such is foolish.

dude since that chick has been in the head seat, she's allowed the devs have free reign on whatever they want to screw up. And she only speaks up once a major number of players completely go off.. since her reign Eve has lost even more players and the numbers are dropping faster each day.

its all over the web now dude, ccp wont dare post their real numbers cause it will prove that eve is indeed failing, plus ccp has lost so much talent (good and bad) that it could cause a riot (no pun intended lol). I wouldn't doubt by now they're already planning her replacement cause she said she was against ego's but allowed ego's to impact and effect this game.

its not stupid math to figure out why folks and new players are giving up on eve..

you cant force anyone to get involved in the null sec wars, let the circle jerks enjoy null and have it to themselves, but we all know if they also see the dip in players in null, they'll run right back to ccp whining how ccp should force players into null sec.

they pull the data, they know the data, they will also lie about that data cause they don't want to look bad. if the data was all great.. they'd simply post it and show it like they use to..

There were no major coalitions in the game back in 2008-2010 like there are now, which agreeably, can almost kill Eve under its own dull weight.

There were no major coalitions in the game back in 2008-2010 like there are now

Or then maybe EvE has 20K core fans who play it no matter what.

Eve isn't dying, it is just surviving with less players.

To be fair, current activity levels have already exceeded the lows of Summer 2012, which means a major corrective wave is in effect, with the following possible scenarios within the next five years:

Read it again.

Exceeded the lows - went below that particular level.

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

I must say that I am glad the developers do not listen to any of these threads and actually have started figuring out what is true and what isn't. And that is all which matters.

I can't imagine why.

Still wrong. You don't consume anything, compared to the rest of the game, and the economy lives and breathes are consumption and destruction of assets.

You already got put in your place by Malcanis about this, you probably shouldn't try repeating this falsehood.

Wrong. Peddle that nonsense all you want, the gross inflation caused by the ludicrous safety of highsec is bad for the game, and bad for new players.

See, newbies income does not increase to keep pace with inflation, especially missions. So as "creation" continues to outpace "destruction" to such an extent, their relative earning and purchasing power continually decreases.

Why do you hate new players?





If by that you mean carebears, still wrong. You're vastly over estimating your importance to the game, and you're doing so deliberately in an attempt to stave off much deserved nerfs.

Simpeltons proving my point.

This post right here tells you everything about this posters world view. I suspect that a great many of the 'bleeding heart' types that play the game and yet experience all this friction with and against the game would subscribe to the same world view. Mainly because the people who complain about things in a game probably complain about the same nonsense in real life while holding on to the same victim mentality.

Didn't you claim it was 62% a while back?, You couldn't prove that claim and you can't prove this claim either.

Still waiting on your in depth analysis and presentation supporting your claims, hoping for graphs too.

They do provide the loot & salvage, though, as well as LP store merchandise.

All parts of the whole are important.

Quoting that isn't your best idea. It shows that, barring a handful of systems, mostly trade hubs, highsec wouldn't even really be on that map.

That presentation is based on characters, not unique players. 2 very different things and something to consider with most players having at least one alt that specialises in areas outside of their main playstyle.

Looking at the presentation by CCP Quant I see that some of the entrepreneurs you say do everything but PvP indulge in some very PvP like activities, such as tackling and kill assists; as do some of the social group, some the traditionals are also involved in tackling.

Your claims have been disputed elsewhere in this thread, the data you're saying supports them actually refers to something else entirely.

So you think that to PVE only, you have to live in high sec?

You don't have an honest bone in your body, do you?

WatGäó?

I've argued for no such thing. I live in hisec, I fall into the entrepreneurs group that makes up 25% of characters.

I'm disputing Icouldchucks interpretation of the data that is erroneously being used to support a farcical claim, not claiming that hisec is irrelevant.

edit ~

Market McSelling Alt wrote:

There is nothing more dishonest then a well spoken individual who takes things that are not present and makes them so for their own justifications.

talk about hoisting yourself by your own petard.

A separate cluster, and when they finished their tutorial they'd be zoned into their faction's starting area in New Eden itself.




Keep telling yourself that. It might be essential to you, but it's not essential to the game. In fact an argument can be made that it's current state is actively bad for the game.

The problem is your worldview.

CCP has been making the game SAFER (especially in high sec) for years. When EVE was truly harsh, it grew, then came safeties and pop ups and unfillable missions (the missions TELL you want to do, hell there is a pop up when you try to undock without a mission item).

There is this way of thinking that, if you coddled people, it you wrap them in cotton and don't let them get hurt, things will be great, but this is false (even if people believe it of themselves). Danger is what makes things interesting, and making things 'safe' makes things stale.. "Carebear enablers" are exactly like bleeding hearts in real life, their own hearts are probably in the right place, but they are na+»ve about the results.

If you really care about the future of EVE, you'll lobby CCP to turn back from the themeparking they've been doing the last few years, because it's obviously not working. A fun, dynamic, dangerous game where people have to think about things, That's what has always worked.

Which has been largely unsuccessful, because every time the subject of nerfing highsec to incentivize other parts of space comes up, people like you pitch a fit to protect your golden goose.



It's actually rather the opposite. As highsec gets safer and safer, the game gets less and less popular.

Most people, that being those who aren't maladjusted misanthropes, do not join an MMO to afk in an ice belt all day. People join for action, they join for conflict, they join to fly a spaceship and kick ass. That's the real game, that's what brings people in and keeps people playing.

As we get further and further away from what the game once was(The Wild West in space), it gets less and less popular. The conclusion should be obvious to anyone not blinded by selfish self interest.

If players open their maps and look at the statistics, it is easy to see that high sec is one of the most dangerous places in the EVE Universe. High sec and Null sec combined are more dangerous than all of null sec.

Your own sig implictly conflates "hi-sec" with "non PvP".

Again with this lie, trying to use Concord's killboard to push your narrative.

You carebears are disgraceful.

Another lie. Chunks' sig, the latter half especially, is trying to push for CCP to waste more time with banal, boring content that does not retain subs, for his own benefit.

You lot need to stop with the outright lying.

If you're going to claim that pure ship loss is a measure of "danger", it does.

If that's the case, we cut the numbers for highsec by 40% at least.




Yes, I have, you just can't read.

No, the fact that people who engage exclusively in said boring content quit at a far higher rate than those who experience PvP makes it boring.

You can enjoy boredom, and that's fine, but you can't say it's not boring, because the deleterious effect that it's existence has on player subs makes that quite clear.





Such projection.



CCP's own statements show that it doesn't. PvP encounters result in a much higher likelihood of subscription retention.

Easy as that.

And I already told you, the mere removal of awoxing alone proves that point, along with the host of other nerfs. You can stomp your feet and scream "data!" like a magic word all you want, but you're just being pedantic.

The nerfs to highsec conflict have been listed out time and again, even in this very thread. Are you telling me they had zero effect?



Make up your mind already, those goalposts are getting tired.

Except that CCP has already pushed people in the direction of A for nearly a decade now. So instead of trying anything different and giving some incentive to B for once, you are suggesting that they double down on A, a known failure.

And the rest of us think you're nuts.

That one, particularly in the area in which new players start the game. And it's been proven to be a strategy to get people to unsub.

Talk about tinfoil. Is that what you've been ranting about through all of this, "Grr Goons"?

Get over yourself.

Haa haa you spent a decade of your life on a computer game.

You shouldn't cheat your employer like that.

My job is to sit quietly at my desk in the event that something breaks. The Army really doesn't care what else I do, it's the technical knowledge that I'm being paid for.

Taxpayer money too.

A total mis understanding of people like him (which is common, and why CODE exists), and why people like me don't fall prey to them. Kaarous knows I'm a PVE player and he's never had a problem with me, because I don't try to meta game him and his ilk away by whining to CCP.

I dislike the exact same people he does, because those same people claim to speak for people like me (the king of "False consensus" is posting in this very thread). They do not, CCP has give us all the tools we need to not fall victim to 'bad people' and the constant 'carebear enabling' you and people like you do does nothing but result in a game that is nerfed for real PVE players. Because it's not red Xs Chevrons that provide the content, it's the satisfaction of killing those Chevrons while avoiding the bad guys.

TL;DR, Kaarous doesn't hate you because you are free, he hates you because you are whinny and weak and unable to cope with simple things in a video game where you can't really die.

Nerfing it has not increased null population, but decreased overall EVE Online population.....

Last time I checked they were still in Hisec? I remember doing them in 2008 with close to 75-90 mil ISK per hour income, but possibly higher.

The LP exchange rate has been devalued since then, though - courtesy of the FW brethren.

If you are in any case wondering if anybody here on these forums takes your comments serious. They don't any more.

Precisely my point.

Risk-reward.

I am specifically mentioning your comments.

and shall we discuss this.. how come CCP has avoided to address the issue of Level 5 missions, I mean new players see it and I noticed its NEVER brought up on the forums.. its almost as if it should be on the radar to address like they did with TEAMS..lvl 5's should be open to everyone and not just limited to one section of space.. put them into null sec or high sec even.. since incursions and FW also happen in high sec.. seems like CCP purposely avoids talking about lvl 5 missions..instead we get
more burner mission stuff.

I was implying cutting the rewards in Hisec due to absent risk. Almost absent.

However, if CCP thinks it's balanced in an economical sense with current bounties & payouts from both incursions and Level 4s, meaning ISK faucets in general, then it's balanced.

It would be curious how reasonably far the incomes can be reduced in Hisec and increased in Null to compensate, but then again, they make a shitton of ISK out thereGäó already.

In fact, Hisec needs high ISK faucets, because they import pretty much all the moon minerals and all of the WH resources, along with Highsend minerals like Megacyte, Morphite, Nocxium and Zydrine.

In regards to the age-long Buff HS vs Nerf HS arguement, anyone here ever notice that the majority of the people whining to CCP to buff HS are the ones who (un)surprisingly play recklessly and don't take the proper precautions prior to flying around in space? HS can be just as dangerous as low or null, and if you use a fail fit for a shiny ship, your just inviting the gankers with open arms.

What I mean is people who fit hulks with nothing but mining boost mods and no tank, orcas with nothing but cargo enhancers and no tank, carrying ridiculously expensive and/or shiny cargo in something entirely not suited for it like a shuttle, T1 frigate or a destroyer with no cloak, and other numerous examples.

I mean seriously, it doesn't take someone with a degree in rocket science to do some simple risk vs reward calculations and see that mining in a skiff with a decently fitted tank is a lot more cost-efficient in a suicide-gank prone area due to less risk of getting it blown up, even if the yield it mines is less. Then when they do get their nothing-but-mining-upgrades-and-cargo-expander-Hulk blown up they whine "Oh CCP, I got ganked, please buff HS oh pretty please!!"

I live primarily in HS, and I've encountered suicide gankers, and I never had much of a problem. Using skiffs with ridiculous tanks that rival some battleships and an Orca with an ungodly tank usually tends to dissuade a lot of gankers and increase survivability when **** hits the fan.

The bulk of these cases are PvE pilots making death threats to PvP pilots.

You are more likely to lose a freighter by undocking it into a wardec than have it ganked. Only a few dozen die per million trips made.

When it's only one segment of the population doing it, especially making death threats because of a normal gameplay interaction, it suggests that segment needs to be curtailed.



You and the other wretched carebears were pretty happy about it when it was me being threatened and doxxed, so I'm going to call you a liar about that.

Hypocrite, too.

I have an excellent idea of that, actually. Ever heard of the Miner Grab Bag? Anyone in CODE would be permabanned for half of the stuff that the GMs routinely let carebears get away with. It's almost like the language section of the EULA doesn't apply to some people.




You and one other, on this very thread, and several more in past threads. Spin harder, liar.

Something like... a Rorqual? It needs a rebalance anyway. A Hulk fleet supported on grid by a Rorq would be a mining machine. The trick is to make it so that the Rorq doesn't automatically get a "kill me" sign on its back when it leaves the safety of a station or POS.

As to whether PVE/industry players are finally welcomed in sov null, that's as much up to the alliances there as it is up to CCP. The sov index calculations and the huge recent buffs to industry should help.

As for high sec mining, I was surprised to see that one of the most significant indicators of whether a new player stayed in the game was whether they mined. Correlation does not causation prove, but the correlation is there. It's certainly a reliable source of income for new players. I don't see the value in nerfing it into the ground; I think CCP's approach of seriously buffing it outside of high sec is the better option.

It just says that you aren't uptodate.

https://element-43.com/market/40/
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=413509&find=unread
https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ore/

Morphite is up more than 130% since the lows of Nov.



Gobbi pls

The inverse is going to happen, or EVE is kill.

Yes, with too few sites per system fully upgraded.

There is a timer that defenders can respond to and they can put their entosis Titan fleet on the structure to be defended. The barrier you talk about is still there.

In reality what will happen is people will roll timers, and defenders wait them to leave and roll them back.

Do you realize how rare systems that spawn 20+ havens and sanctums are?

Normally you get 20+ average sites and 3 or 4 sanctums and havens. While average sites do pay dividends, you need to run many more of them to make the same as one haven.

Exploration sites don't just appear, the system needs to be upgraded for them, belt rats are hardly worth the effort now as officer spawns are so low (or have they been removed altogether)

You could always upgrade every system in nul and depending on the "trusec" of the system some were always better than others. This has not changed, if you have a bad "trusec" the system fully upgraded will still only ever be a mediocre income earner that can support a limited number of players.

Now, if upgrading a system included a way to improve trusec, it would be different. Being able to improve your system overall via activity would make many more systems viable for long term use by larger groups of players.
As long as a group needs to hold multiple systems just to provide income - Large groups will hold the winning card.

More like:

An imaginary amount.

Because that's what his post was. It's like he thinks no one else ever plays in nullsec. Screenshots or it's completely false claim.

This is why you are always in a stupid argument, because you don't realize that you post things that disprove what you think.

You realize that while the picture you linked most likely shows an upgraded system, not all of those anoms are part of the upgrade system right. See the Drone anoms there?

When ccp introduced the u[grade system, they didn't alter the 'natural anom spawin' system that existed before (and that still exists in low, npc null and wormhole space). That means that some of the Sanctums and Havens you see in upgraded systems are still 'naturals', meaning once you do them, they don't respawn in that system, but rather elsewhere in the constellation. The presence of Drone anoms means that system is a 'stack' ie people have done those anoms in other systems but the system the picture was taken in is (at least for a couple days) largely unused.

The most sanctums you can get from an upgraded -1.0 system is 5, and that number is 8 for havens. Natural anoms (including drones that can drop Sisters BPC chits). That's 13 anoms not 20 (enough to sustain 6 ratters without tripping over each other, forsaken hubs and rally points being able to accommodate 4-5 more in a -1.0 system. Natural spawning anoms are generally not present because you can't tell by looking what system an anom belongs to.

In fact, there is no guruntee the system in your link is upgraded, because natural 'stack' systems also still exist.


You've displayed that incredible ignorance about how PVE works at other times, including in the missions and complexes forum. That doesn't make sense, why would you comment about things you don't know about, destroying your own credibility when people who do know post?

He's not saying anything of the sort, you're just too ignorant to know it.

Only if you enjoy looking the fool.

Look at your own 1st picture man.

1 forsaken hub, when you have your probe scanner set to "type up".

The 1st picture is a 'stack' system, ie a place in a constellation where natural anomalies 'stack up' after done in other place (in high sec, this happens on "islands"). Go ahead, do the sanctums, most won't resapwn.

Look at picture 2 and 3 you posted. notice the lack of sanctums. That means low true sec systems, but not in the highest band., but notie the FOUR forsaken hubs in one of them (that's how you tell a low true sec upgraded system, one f the ways anyway).

That 1st system isn't upgraded, and posting that picture in a discussion where someone was telling you that "20 sanctums and havens is untrue) wa the dumbest thing you could do. It proves that you don't understand what you are talking about.

Go ahead and blame me for your own ignorance if that makes you feel better though.

Sure, now see how great that is when there are 7 other people in the system tripping over each other after the naturals are gone.

Keep digging that hole dude. Like I said, all you are doing is bolstering our argument and making yourself loo like a fool who can't even understand a video game lol.

Oh come now.

Come and play on Tranquility with the rest of us.

Singularity is ok, but it's even easier than highsec.

So, if you have been alone in there, and the only one running sites - You are either the ultimate nulbear or the military level should hit zero any day now.

Oh and - A little closer to "on topic" - The really sad thing is, you have been there "alone" for months. Doesn't say much for the state of sov does it.

Out of everything wrong with Eve, it's pretty telling that you think this is the most important. The one thing CCP has told us that is actively detrimental to positive retention, not to mention faux "content" that is trivialized within days of being released(as all PvE content is), and apparently we need to waste dev time on more of it.

Which one has higher concurrency? Hint, it's not EVE.

Conflict sells. Chewing on rocks doesn't.

Okay, you're just dense. Actively making it bad would be intentionally wasting precious dev time on PvE when anything else needs balancing.

The PvE in Eve is bad, yes. It has no need to be good. That's what you need to understand. If you're here for the PvE content, you are indeed playing Eve Online wrong.

Chewing rocks will never be interesting or compelling gameplay.

EVE's PvE is bad because, like all PvE, it is trivial content barring interference from other players. The only thing that keeps PvE content appearing interesting in other games is that they devote the majority of their staff to rotating through different flavors of it nigh constantly.

Like two months into every WoW expansion, where their playerbase pours out tears on the forums about how they've finished it all already, and Blizz needs to hurry up and make more, blah blah blah. Like freaking locusts, consume and move on, because PvE content has so little replay value unless heavily procedurally generated. (something that EVE cannot do)

And if a game studio ten times the size of CCP can't keep up with the demand, CCP damn sure can't.

CCP disagrees.

"Look upon me. Dare not look away."

Hush up and go learn about sigs already. I'll even be a standup guy and link the wiki page for you.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Cosmic_Signatures

Aww, he didn't fall for it.

I was hoping to make him waste an hour on that awful wiki. Ah well.

The overview icons were indeed a bad change - I've left my thoughts in the both threads of the EVE Information Portal section.

They may be fine for travel & casual activities, but are unfit for PvP.

What truth?

If you equate a single account as a certain amount of money given to CCP, whether via subscription or via PLEX then the simple truth is that CCPs revenue is based upon those numbers. Sure there are people who's wont be included (because they aren't online) but if you take the numbers above and extrapolate an average you can clearly see that CCP is making less money currently than it was 5 years ago.

Whether we want to admit it or not, we need CCP to be successful for EvE to flourish and the dev's need EvE to be succesful for them to keep their jobs.

I don't know what kind of line you were taking with the agenda part on your reply but put simply, the above is the most basic truth you will get.

Subs are based on enjoyment of the game, subs denote the success of EvE and also the ability for CCP to either expand or contract in terms of teams/dev ability & time and so on. To refute this is to refute the basic principle of development and general practice in the corporate world.

Accounts arent' the only way CCP gets revenue. The point i was making is that a historically disingenuous poster with a self stated agenda ignores information that doesn't fit with what he wants to happen (which is basically a re-write of EVe online to cater to him personally, even though he tries to hide his agenda by claiming leadership of some imaginary "62%" of eve players).

CCP has done some things that directly or indirectly caused people to not need so many alt accounts. Multiple Character training is the biggest, followed by things like Jump mechancis changes that caused many players to shed cyno/utility alts and jump clone changes that had the same affect (you can get JC cool down to 19 hours now, lessening the need for an alt in some cases). The partisan poster I replied to takes none of these things into account when claiming the lower PCU numbers validate his agenda.

Paranoia about PCU counts is senseless when honest and reasonable people understand that raw PCU numbers are meaningless. The people who harp about PCU counts are actually just looking for a lever with which to manipulate CCP. The same people were complaining about the same things when the PCU count was going up.

Not the ones the themepark crowd wants...

Got any proof of that seriously outlandish claim?

Then perhaps folks should stop using them as bullet points to their arguments.

Nothing that CCP have been doing for the last year or two makes any sense unless they are planning for EVE in the long term. You don't do stuff like ban multi-broadcasting or spend 3 years replacing legacy code otherwise. They either think EVE is going to last a long time or they've raided the facilities stores and are huffing carpet glue like crazy.

They have been weirdly sanguine about the declining PCU and there are several possibilities here. Note that these possibilities are not exclusive.

1) They're all high as kites on that carpet glue and CCP was in fact a shadow operation to cover the smuggling of high quality uncut rotting shark the whole damb time. There were never more than a few hundred people actually playing EVE. Most of the people at fanfest were actors. We've been tricked.

2) EVE has already been sold to EA/Rockstar/Riot/ The Reptoids, and CCP staff don't give a toss about what happens between now and the official announcement: they're just packing in as many as possible of their personal pet changes that they always wanted to implement because screw it, they're all getting fired soon anyway.

3) The carpet glue is really working, and they believe that EVE is going to last at least another 10 years, so they're clearing out a bunch of longstanding code- and customer-centric issues, including but not limited to too many damb alts, too many whiny bittervets who just can't quite bring themselves to quit but stick around to **** up the party for everyone else, botters, RMTers, 5 digit numbers of supercapitals, tidying up horrible legacy code, etc., so that when the SeagullSpaceGäó or direct control or PvE that isn't horrible whatever amazeballs feature they think is going to turn the ship around kicks in, the decks will have been cleared.

4) PCU is down a lot, but subs aren't down by nearly as much, so it's not as bad as it looks, not just yet anyway. CCP assume that their customers are skillqueuing and waiting for Excitement, Adventure, Really Wild Things. They think that they have something up their sleeves that will convert all those skillqueuers into logger-inners.

Yeah exactly. That's why it's weird that CCP seem to keep on making these "short term pain, long term gain" type decisions for EVE. I've met these people; quite a lot of them are kind of weird, but most of them are equally definitely not stupid. If EVE was staring into the abyss, I am certain that we'd be seeing some very different decisions being implemented.

I mean come on, as an exercise, I am pretty sure that you can easily think of half a dozen major points of difference if you wanted to make a short term cash grab: cheaply implented, populist options - Leave the ISboxers alone. Custom skins in the NEx or whatever it's called now. Spawn a bunch of new space. NPC corp standings tokens for AUR. Special edition ship giveaways. Pirate bloodline Player characters. And those are just the ones that wouldn't really touch the sandbox too hard. If you're willing to cross that line then AUR for SP would just be the start.

In what manner? If you're referring to the gameplay changes of late, then they are merely doing the things that needed to be done over a two-three year period, but now compressed in just a few months.

Short term it is usually done with cookies & content.

EVE is/was sick fundamentally on certain levels.

I have said it since the first dev blog about it was published. It punishes everyone except the griefers. "Griefer's paradise" (Maybe that article will better explain it)
You also said it yourself;

Nullsec groups aren't really saying that though. Individuals are and each is entitled to their opinion. There are also individuals excited by the coming changes.

Mostly the groups that participated seem to have gained what limited experience they can from Duality and see some of the issues both with the mechanics and the way the test was setup (may have been perfect for what CCP wanted to test, but not ideal for the players in terms of max indexes/indices).

Mostly as groups, not many conclusions have been drawn yet. We should see in a few weeks though.

On the bit about how all we ever hear is about how highsec needs to be griefed; there is as much ridicule of nullbears as there is carebears on the forum and it seems to be a great past time to just dismiss anyone that doesn't share the same opinion, no matter where they sit in a discussion. So meh. Everyone cops it equally.

NPCs are predictable and with the exception of Concord, easily countered.

For any resistance to ganking to be truly effective it has to be in the hands of players who are familiar with game mechanics and how to use them effectively, otherwise gankers will continue to adapt and come up with doctrines with which to bypass the scripted NPCs.

NPC agencies are a lazy solution to a problem that should be left to players to solve.

It started 2 years ago - As for seeing errors, CCP is well known for repeating past mistakes hoping for a different outcome.

CCP has ex-players as designers who are developing the game toward their play styles - Which unfortunately does not suit the majority.

Or it falls victim to the EVE Gods when carelessly transported...

Firstly, I'm neither a bigot or a slow learner. I simply disagree with your opinions, assumptions and ill conceived proposals.

A bigot is someone who is intolerant of others opinions. I'm not intolerant, I just think that your opinion is wrong and I make no bones about it.

I'm open to revising my opinion on presentation of objective, not subjective, evidence that contradicts it. As it stands you've failed to be objective about anything at all, you see what you want to see and ignore or attack everything that doesn't fit with your agenda, you're not prepared to revise your opinion at all, and totally unwilling to admit that you may be wrong.

Which of those behaviours fits the definition of bigot?

That's your opinion based on your subjective interpretation of the data, not a fact; know the difference.

I'd love to see your evidence that PCU has a strong correlation with subs. There are multiple accounts that are subbed but rarely if ever logged in, despite the introduction of services for PLEX this is probably still true for certain skillsets.

I never said that June was the worst month, I merely stated that it is a part of a season that is traditionally quiet.

Input broadcasting is no longer a thing in Eve, because it's now a bannable offence. Prior to the changes in the EULA with regards to input broadcasting it was very much a thing, CCP even provided a graph that shows a massive falloff in the activities of multiboxers post change.

Now onto the nice chart and figures you so kindly provided.

My subjective interpretation is as follows.
Approx 29% are professionals, who do lots of PvP
Approx 23% are entrepreneurs, who do some PvP
Approx 8% are aggressors, who do lots of PvP
Approx 15% are social, who do a little PvP
Approx 25% are traditionalists, who do a little PvP

Ergo my subjective interpretation of the data indicates that approx 37% of players do lots of PvP, approx another 23% of players do some PvP; not as much as the previous 37% but certainly more than the social and traditional groups.
That makes approx 60% of players who participate in PvP to a reasonable extent when compared to the remaining approx 40% who do little or no PvP.

I'm willing to admit that my interpretation is coloured by my beliefs and opinions, are you man/woman enough to do the same?

TL;DR: I'm not arguing with CCPs data, which is objective, I'm arguing with your interpretation of it, which is not.

Less people are playing now than after Incarna. The C.E.O. got onstage at fanfest the next year and said it almost broke the company. You do the math.

This from a financial auditor?

What rubbish. Youy pay for a product from CCP, just like you pay for products from other companies. After you give them your money, it's no longer yours, it's theirs.

So if you don't want to feel like you are a source of crowd funding (which you aren't), then quit the game. Simple. Don't buy CCP's products.

They already are, 2 glaring examples of non spaceship PvP that many people who regularly interact with NPCs do are market trading and industry.

There's no point locking it. Another thread will just pop up within days.

Teg has been banging that drum for years. Originally on his blog he tried to campaign for the removal of 'reavers' because apparently the monstrous sociopaths are scaring away the cuddly potentials. Still sounds like bollocks to me. Isachunk isn't the least bit cuddly. Now he just seems to be bitter towards CCP over pretty much everything.

Having said that, the graphs that people keep creating are interesting. Sometimes they are annotated with major events (B-R/This is EvE trailer etc). I've yet to see one matched to major nullsec campaigns, or perhaps more importantly, an attempt to correlate dips to the implosion of large alliances/coalitions. Such a shame the QENs stopped being produced - there's masses of info in there that can be used to track ingame activity.

The r/eve metrics show a steady increase in people subscribed (the Total Subscribers graph). To put that in perspective, here is the r/gameofthrones stats. Considering how talked about GoT is on social media, EvE having 10% of their subs on reddit doesn't seem too shabby. One thing that is noticeable even when PCU numbers dip people are still rambling on about EvE on various social media sites (I wonder if the rambling intensifies to correspond with the PCU). Even when people aren't actively logged into the client, or subbed for that matter, they seem pretty engaged with the wider community. That doesn't fit all that well into these Armageddon narratives, and neither does the level of engagement apparent on reddit from devs.

Nah, they can't. Whoever it is you're quoting doesn't understand that "people" and "characters" aren't the same thing.

Aggressive! You need to get laid?
You seemed to miss something though. They themselves admit that they can not reliably tell how many actual people are logged in/own subscriptions. Funnily enough your own example supports that it's not possible to reliably connect characters with human beings.

I can create ten accounts on one computer using the same IP and they can't tell it's all me. Not even the mail address is a reliable indicator, because I could have a shared one with others. Or differently, I could use ten seperate mail addresses on the same computer on a shared IP. It's still not reliable.

And to evade a ban all you need is fake your MAC, use a VPN, use a new mail address and sub via PLEX.


But PLEASE explain me how you would do something they are struggling with!

You get prompted to input your real name and address once you log into account management. You don't need to do this unless you are attempting to subscribe using RL funds (or attempting to transfer the character to another account). So anyone on an active trial (whether new player or old on a new account) is anonymous. If you sub your account indefinitely via Plex you are also never prompted for personal info, because you don't need to log into account management to apply a plex.

Rookie chat sits at 500-3000 active at any time which is a reasonable chunk. Add to that the long term plexed accounts. Then add people at shared IPs (such as University) or with a dynamic IP address which is reset by their ISP. Now throw in VPN users, or those who dial in from multiple IPs (work, home, laptop). I bet some people do use multiple email addresses for their accounts for security reasons. We were encouraged to link our accounts but it wasn't made mandatory.

An estimate based upon active users probably can be made but I suspect the margin for error is large enough to make it useless.

simple rebalance changes just keep ppl playing.
but eve needs a lot of fresh blood and not some minor nerfs or buffs on some mechanics.

thats not thinking out of the box,thats thinking in a mosquito cigarette box...

People too dumb to figure that out are kind of useless.

So why do these people need it easier than the tens of thousands before them?

I-¦m kinda confused, there has been lots of talk about banning multiboxers and what not some months ago, as a reason for dropping PCU numbers in http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility, but seems to me drop has continued even after those measures were taken, steadily about 1K in every couple weeks...

Also, summer has been offered as an explanation on dropping numbers, but holidays have started in June (especially for students) at most of Europe already, and still month later PCU numbers are dropping....

I know there are no holidays from work in USA, has something happened in Russia?

I opened it up to "All" for PCU count, and if you discount a few thousand logged in as ISBoxer losses(which is not a bad thing), it looks about the same as it does every summer, steady drops in PCU until late August. Between that and the mass of people who stopped playing from Phoebe(many of whom likely dropped their sub or are playing Skill Queue to wait and see how Fozzie sov turns out), it looks about right to me.

Hell, mid July is a low point for the last five years running. People just play less in the summer.

That's every single year the case.
And when winter comes it's blamed on the winter.

That couldn't be anything else, of course. Nothing about the lead up to the sov changes or anything like that.





Please tell me more about how your specific niche is what will save the game from a market order lull. Make sure to add in something to try and contradict that CCP themselves have outright said that new players who are "forced into PvP" are more likely to resub than any other demographic.

They functionally banned the gameplay of several thousand accounts, at least. Whether you agree with the changes or not, all those accounts are now by and large worthless to the people who previously kept them subbed. The majority of them quit. That's not my opinion.

Some people would like you to believe that the player count drop has NOTHING to do with this fact that thousands of accounts were functionally banned, but instead how CCP doesn't kiss ass enough to the carebears.

It beggars belief.

In that case market would drop almost every time new patch is out.



In game with player driven economy dying market means dying game. "CCP themselves have outright said that new players who are "forced into PvP" are more likely to resub than any other demographic." - any proof of this? I remember CCP telling something quite different...

If you got oneshoted wihthout opportunity even to fight back and than laughed at in chat about how silly you are not looking at d-scan (what is it, hu?) this will not encourage you to renew subscription.

Anyone else get a good laugh at the pathetic themepark mentality these two sentences show?

You're really grasping. Desperate to try and apply some label, hmm?

And the old buff to exhumers. And anchor rigs. And being able to fit (tank) freighters. etc etc.

What the "if you just protect people" crowd doesn't ever understand is that this is a video game, and while people my complain about things, at the end of the day, a video game must be compelling. CCP (at the behest of these vocal 'protectionist' types) has been following the wrong path, adding pop ups and guides and safeties and crap. These things provide COMFORT, where as for a game to be compelling it has to induce (conquerable) STRESS.

This is why I always say to these types that their social justice quest to see people like CODE curtailed and diminished by CCP doesn't do anything to CODE, but nerfs the hell our of people like me, PVE minded players who don't want or need CCP hand holding.

No, they're leaving because CCP functionally banned about five thousand of them a few months ago.




This is about as disingenuous a thing as I have ever heard come from someone who wasn't Infinity Ziona. Because apparently the freaking WORMHOLE expansion was "PvE content focus".

Time to wave again The Chart (good that I Imgur'ed it...)

That's what susbcribers do in Tranquility with all their chars and accounts. Only 30% do a bit of everything ingame. The rest are focused on PvP (8%) or PvE (50%) or socializing (12%).

My signature already summarizes it all.

These two remind me of Charles and Camilla trying some teenage slang. There are PVPers who do not PVE at all.
They function on loot dropped, SRP programs and buy PLEX for cash to top up their ISK if those first two aren't covering their ships.